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  #11  
Old 08-14-2009, 11:43 AM
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I believe there is much to be learned from Jewish feasts because they are important when looking at prophecy. Otherwise, the date & timing of the crucifixion would lose all it's symbolism. Messianic Jews are a different part of the Body that we can't do without!!
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Old 08-14-2009, 03:38 PM
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John 10, one shepherd one fold.
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  #13  
Old 08-14-2009, 04:02 PM
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Default I personally haven't been on any messianic threads ...

But Nathan's teaching on this thread is ROCK SOLID, and I couldn't agree more ...
God Bless ALL who are in this forum.
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  #14  
Old 10-27-2009, 05:45 PM
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Nathan, I have family that is being pulled in to Torah keeping and it grieves my heart. They were barely babes in the Lord, just feeling their way out of catholicism, and they have side tracked into another works oriented system.
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Old 11-01-2009, 02:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gibby62 View Post
I believe there is much to be learned from Jewish feasts because they are important when looking at prophecy. Otherwise, the date & timing of the crucifixion would lose all it's symbolism. Messianic Jews are a different part of the Body that we can't do without!!
I agree. And I have celebrated the feasts. But while doing so Romans 14 stood out to me. Romans 14 was one of those scriptures I was glued to when I was a new Christian and in a abusive church (not messianic).

But we can ruin it when we apply law to it...try to give it some "teeth." And this is not, or does not have to be, Messianic vs. Christian. Both words are synanomous (spelling?).

Nathan clarified it very well as that is a standard I can agree with.
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  #16  
Old 11-13-2009, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Handmaiden View Post
This commentary by Andrew Strom expresses some of the same concerns that Nathan does.


RETURN of THE JUDAIZERS??
-by Andrew Strom.

I have friends who call Jesus “Yeshua“. I don’t mind it at all. I have
other friends who keep the Saturday Sabbath. It doesn’t bother
me too much, unless there is a kind-of “aggressive attitude” about
it. But in recent years I have witnessed a worrying trend – that in
my opinion is growing worse – and we need to address it.

Today when a Christian tells me that they are “Torah-observant”
then all kinds of alarms go off. It may be that they are just into
‘Hebrew roots‘ – but usually it is a lot more than that. We all know
that in the early church, the biggest problem they had was with
the “Judaizers” who went around trying to convince the Gentile
Christians that they must obey the letter of the Old Testament
Law. This shipwrecked the faith of many. It was the biggest
problem they had. The book of Galatians is all about it – and many
other sections of the New Testament. It was a battle between the
old Law – with its subtle bondages – and the new walk of the Spirit
and of grace.

A few months back, we published the testimony of a Christian
woman who got involved with a Messianic group that slowly under-
mined her faith in Jesus – and basically converted her gradually
into a practicing Jew – even though they all thought of themselves
as “Messianic Christians”! She realized later that in almost every
way she had slowly had her faith in Jesus and the New Testament
replaced with the keeping of the Torah. She had been “Judaized”!
And I fear this is happening to a great many Christians today – in
all kinds of subtle ways.

This is exactly what the Bible warns against – losing the “simplicity”
of the faith. And that is why Paul was so strong against the Juda-
izers. He saw that Christians were being tempted – not to place
their faith in Christ alone – but rather in Christ PLUS the keeping of
the Law. It was no longer a simple trust in JESUS to be their
righteousness. They now started to feel they had to keep the letter
of the Old Law too – in order to be truly “holy”. And so they became
“Judaized”. This is the worst trap possible. And so subtle!

Let us look at a few vital Scriptures. Please open your Bible to
Acts 15:1-29. This whole passage is about a great meeting of the
apostles to decide whether – with the new Gentile Christians – it
was “necessary to circumcise them, and to command them to
keep the law of Moses” (v 5). So what did the apostles conclude
about this? As Peter declared during the debate about it, “Why
do you test God by putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples
which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?” (v 10).

At the end of the great meeting, the apostles put out a letter to
the Gentile Christians that declared: “For it seemed good to the
Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than
these necessary things: that you abstain from things offered to
idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual
immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well.”
(v. 28-29). And as far as the Old Law went, that was it!

In other words, no “Torah observance”, no Sabbath, no circumcision,
no Old Law apart from these few things. This brief list only. That
was the pronouncement of the apostles. If they wanted to tell the
Gentiles, “You must keep the Jewish Sabbath,” then this was the
place to do it. But it is definitely not included. And neither are a
thousand-and-one other things from the Old Testament.

Of course, this should be no surprise to us. In Colossians 2, Paul
tells us very clearly that Christ has “wiped out the handwriting of
requirements that was against us” by nailing it to the cross (v. 14).
He then goes on to say: “So let no one judge you in food or in
drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, which
are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.”
(v. 16-17).

So all these Old Testament practices are only a “shadow” of the
New. In fact, as Hebrews makes clear, the entire Old Covenant
was only a ‘type’ or shadow of that which was to come. It was not
the real thing! It does not make us more “holy”! The substance is
found in Christ – and Him alone. The Old Torah “requirements”
were nailed to the cross with Jesus. We don’t need them any more.
If anybody ever tells you that the New Testament is simply a
“continuation” of the Old, run a mile from that person. They simply
do not know what they are talking about. In fact, what they are
spouting is dangerous heresy.

Thus, as Paul tells us in Romans, observing the Sabbath is only
necessary if our conscience is weak in this area – and we feel we
have to:- “One person esteems one day above another; another
esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own
mind. He who observes the day observes it to the Lord; and he
who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it”
(Rom 14:1-6).

So we do not “have” to observe the Sabbath. It does not make us
more ‘holy’ or righteous to do so. It is simply a matter of conscience.
This runs against a lot of the teaching that is doing the rounds
right now. There is a lot of dangerous “Back to the Torah”-type
emphasis that is bringing a lot of harm to a lot of people. Many
of them don’t even realize what is happening to them.

Paul clearly tells us in Galatians that you can lose your salvation
by beginning to rely on the Law in your Christian walk: “You
observe days and months and seasons and years. I am afraid for
you, lest I have labored for you in vain” (Gal 4:10-11). He then
goes on to say, “You have become estranged from Christ, you
who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.”
(Gal 5:4). Alarming statements, are they not?

You see, it is a direct insult to the work of Christ and to God for
us to go back to the “works of the Law” to try and make us more
‘righteous’ in His sight. It is placing our trust in something other
than just Jesus. We are “adding works” for our salvation. And it
will not do.

I believe that just like the Galatians, a lot of people today need to
repent of trying to add the Old Law to their salvation – sometimes
in subtle ways – sometimes major. This is not the kind of thing to
toy around with. It can be utterly deadly. If you are someone who
is adding “Torah observance” to your faith, I urge you to repent.

The testimony of the woman who slowly lost her faith in Jesus
through Messianic Torah-observance can be found at the top of
our website. Here is the link-

http://www.revivalschool.com
Very well stated ...
I concur.
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  #17  
Old 11-13-2009, 07:34 PM
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LightningRod,

You have made this thread an interesting read!!

...not sure how ...uhh...

..I am...uhh....hmmm...

cannibalism??

eating rats?

eating dogs?

...how did the conversation end up on those points ???

Am I missing something???


Nathan
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  #18  
Old 11-13-2009, 07:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan View Post
LightningRod,

You have made this thread an interesting read!!

...not sure how ...uhh...

..I am...uhh....hmmm...

cannibalism??

eating rats?

eating dogs?

...how did the conversation end up on those points ???

Am I missing something???


Nathan


Proverbs 12:10

10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.




Not everything was made to eat.

You cannot eat rocks. You cannot eat trees

It's just basic common sense





Animals Rights Activists think they are the only ones who loves animals



God loves animals more than they do.
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  #19  
Old 11-13-2009, 07:54 PM
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LightningRod,

I have chosen to delete several of your posts in this thread, and likewise the responses that were made to you.

They served NO purpose to the direction and message of this thread.


This is about Judaizers, not eating human flesh which is OBVIOUSLY anathema (wrong)!!!

Nathan
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"For thus hath the Lord said unto me, Go, set a watchman, let him declare what he seeth." Isaiah 21:6
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  #20  
Old 11-13-2009, 08:09 PM
lightningrod lightningrod is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan View Post
LightningRod,

I have chosen to delete several of your posts in this thread, and likewise the responses that were made to you.

They served NO purpose to the direction and message of this thread.


This is about Judaizers, not eating human flesh which is OBVIOUSLY anathema (wrong)!!!

Nathan

ok, no problem bro


I'm glad that you agree that eating human flesh is Anathema


I agree with your initial post about observing Torah Law

We cannot stone people today, that law is done away with after Jesus
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